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General Discussion => Adventure Gaming - Loom Island => Topic started by: Iurius on March 06, 2015, 01:33:14 PM



Title: Loom Postmortem
Post by: Iurius on March 06, 2015, 01:33:14 PM
This very moment Brian Moriarty is talking about Loom Postmortem at GDC!
Seems to be very interesting according to tweets by those who listen to him.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_bt5VFU8AAzsc2.jpg)

I hope there would be a video of it afterwards.


Title: Re: Loom Postmortem
Post by: Iurius on March 06, 2015, 02:00:53 PM
Oh, and he just said that Loom is 25 years old today!


Title: Re: Loom Postmortem
Post by: Iurius on March 06, 2015, 10:54:34 PM
And finally, there is a possibility that Wadjet Eye Games could make a Loom sequel.

(I mean an 'official' one besides 'Forge'... Although I doubt it is Brian who has the rights to Loom and not Disney, althogh he asked Wadjet Eye (or Telltale, or Double Fine) to contact him if they want to do that, and Dave Gilbert said he has written Brian!)


Title: Re: Loom Postmortem
Post by: abisso on March 07, 2015, 06:45:40 PM
Official sequel would mean no unofficial one, that's for sure. But it would also mean much more chances to have a sequel in a short time, so I guess it would be the best for the fans.

I have a deep respect for Mr. Moriarty, and if our project (which he's aware of and even played from start to finish) has rekindled his interest in the series, I guess I should just be happy.

Let's see how things evolve.

Thanks for the news Iurius, and if you happen to find a recording of the conference, please share it here.


Title: Re: Loom Postmortem
Post by: Iurius on March 07, 2015, 11:39:29 PM
No recordings yet - only articles like this one (http://www.pcgamer.com/loom-postmortem-the-history-of-an-underappreciated-gem-25-years-later/).

abisso, I think nothing could threaten your project.  I doubt that Telltale (who has switched from adventures to interactive movies) and Double Fine (who did not do very well recently with keeping promises and making real adventure games) would be interested. Wadjet Eye Games is another case - there was much hope as Dave Gilbert has e-mailed Brian and said he is 'definitely interested'! Unfortunately after talking with Brian, Dave confirmed that 'the legal rights to Loom are really tangled up. It's complex and mysterious but essentially it would be too much effort for a little company like mine to unravel. So Loom 2 won't happen'  :'(

Of course, I still hope that the possible cooperation between Brian Moriarty and Wadjet Eye Games could still bring us some more masterpieces - but that probably would not be 'Forge (the official)'.


Title: Re: Loom Postmortem
Post by: abisso on March 08, 2015, 09:45:56 AM
Thanks for the update Iurius.

Well, it seems weird that they discovered all they needed to know to state that "legal rights are too complicated" in such a short amount of time. Why couldn't Mr. Moriarty did that little research by himself before making his announcement, taking advantage of his past contacts and accountability? Something is weird here.

But in all honesty, I wasn't lying when I said it would be (have been?) the best for the fans. I can't really deny the chances for the game to be completed would be much higher with a professional company, and time required much less.
As per the quality... well, if Mr. Moriarty is involved it's a no-Brianer!  ;D
Seriously, having him as the game-designer would be a quality and faithfulness insurance right from the beginning.

I also have respect for WadjetEyeGames and Dave Gilbert, mainly for their ability to tell stories. The Shivah is awesome and Gemini Rue is a nice one as well. I recently bought all Blackwell's games but I still have to play them. I even offered my services as an Eng-Ita translator out of respect some time ago, but never received a reply.
The things I don't like much in their games are the art (purely personal taste, it's definitely professional) and the quality of the voice-overs, as I've wrote them in the past. Also, they usually don't make pixel-art games as far as I know, and I'd really like Forge to be pixel-art.
If I was to pick a company I'd go for Crystal Shard (awesome guys both in terms of competence and as human beings). But if I was to pick one out of the three Mr. Moriarty mentioned, I'd pick WadjetEye as well.

What's disheartening, if I have to be honest, is neither Mr. Moriarty nor Dave Gilbert acknowledged our fan-sequel, despite being both well aware of its existence. The Professor even spent very kind and encouraging words for our project in the past, but apparently he doesn't think it would be a worthy sequel, otherwise he could have mentioned it.

In conclusion: would I be happy to find I've wasted so much of my and other team-mates time? No.
Would that be the case, however? Not at all.

We've raised attention for Loom and its sequel (maybe too much, probably not enough); I've learned a lot and had lots of fun, met interesting people, and much more. It's been tough sometimes, but also rewarding, and as such time well spent.

However things go, it's been an interesting journey. I hope you enjoyed it too.


Title: Re: Loom Postmortem
Post by: Iurius on March 08, 2015, 11:08:18 AM
Yes, abisso, I see what you call weird. As if Brian and Dave did not know the day before that they do not have the rights to make a Loom sequel! But I just have thought that while they couldn't actually make 'Loom 2' without Disney approval, they can in fact make 'Forge' or 'The Fold' as those are probably not registered as trade marks by LucasArts/Disney?
But now it seems they are not doing a sequel anyway. Which makes me wonder if it is safe for you to do 'Forge'? I mean, you know of the 'LucasFan' fate? And that could just be the reason why neither Brian nor Dave mention your project in public.

I like Wadjet Eye games as well, I have beta-tested several of them. But why do you say that 'they usually don't make pixel-art games'? All of their games are AGS and pixel-art, aren't they? They do not differ much in that from Crystal Shard games (which are excellent as well, you are right).

However things go, it's been an interesting journey. I hope you enjoyed it too.

Why, you are talking as if you are already done with that journey :) But only the 1st chapter is finished, and there is a lot of things to do, right?

You know, I have a lot of criticisms for the first chapter - I have tried to play it like 5 or 6 times since the first tech demo, but I can't get past that tombstone puzzle or some other things (and I am a very experienced adventure gamer)  ;)
So, there are many things 'Forge' can be improved with for the next chapters.


Title: Re: Loom Postmortem
Post by: abisso on March 08, 2015, 11:50:52 AM
Well, working of Forge has never been "safe". We knew that from the very beginning and that's the reason we always kept a relatively low profile. Even setting the donation system has been a risk and we thought long before deciding to set it up.
Funny thing is I asked advice to Mr. Moriarty about how to attract a bit more fans without risking too much. Maybe this is his answer to that? Just kidding, of course.

I think Moriarty's move can only be explained as a test for people's interest. Seeing if there's enough hopes and expectations to justify an attempt to work on a sequel or a spiritual sequel. For this same reason, I don't think they didn't mention our project to protect it, because the kind of attention that has been raised goes exactly against us.

Making a proper sequel without using elements from Loom is out of question. You can make an inspired game, sure, but it takes a lot of attention and care. You need to remove all references and concepts to an extent that makes you 100% safe from the risk of being sued or stopped during production. Because, hey, the chances to win against Disney are the same as being struck by lightning and the consequences of a loss can be as disastrous.

As per the reasons I said WadjetEye don't (mainly) do pixel-art, it's simply a technical one. Pixel-art doesn't just mean using low-res. It's a very specific kind of art, with its strict rules and its distinctive looks. No use of filters is just one of those rules, and many WadjetEye games make abundant use of them, giving that sort of "blurred" effect to backgrounds. Characters are usually in pixel-art, though.
There's a lot of sources you might look into if you're interested in knowing more about Pixel-art. I recommend this link: http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11299&PID=139318#139318 (http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11299&PID=139318#139318)
The comparison with Crystal Shard is spot on, as they don't use true pixel-art as well. I think it's a design choice, as they are much more influenced by Sierra, and Sierra didn't use pixel-art in most of their games.
To be frank, even Forge is not 100% true pixel-art (it would be long and boring to explain why, but a trained pixel-artist would notice immediately).

I humbly agree Ch.1 is far from perfect, and also far from how I wanted it to be and from what it could have been. But don't worry, I said "however things go" for a reason. I still hope the journey will go on!

And if it doesn't, I hope someone else will do a sequel, possibly with Brian Moriarty as the game-designer.


Title: Re: Loom Postmortem
Post by: Iurius on April 02, 2015, 07:18:25 PM
The video of 'Loom Postmortem' is available now (http://gdcvault.com/play/1021862/Classic-Game-Postmortem)!


Title: Re: Loom Postmortem
Post by: abisso on April 02, 2015, 09:47:06 PM
I've watched the first half so far. Boy, I love that man! He truly knows how to wrap up a speech and be both informative and entertaining. And how to convey emotions, too.
He was noticeably moved when he recalled how the whole idea for Loom came out from a simple name over a circuit board. It's like he was feeling that epiphany once again, 25 years later.
I can't help but feel a profound respect and affection for Mr. Moriarty.

My eyes got watery at some point, too. There's no denying, those images, those stories, evoked memories of my childhood whose magic is now gone. I could envision a glimpse of an afternoon of about 24 years ago, when somehow I was at one of my sister's friend's house, and had the privilege of being shown Loom on an old 286 PC. My PC didn't have the appropriate drive to fit those disks, and other games got the spotlight in no time, so that was the only moment I saw Loom until I started working on Forge.
And yet, the elegant, eerie bluishness of the island of Loom got carved in my retina for all those years.

Well, I'm getting nostalgic, definitely too much, and I'm tired. Literally, I mean, I need some sleep! Or maybe it's the influence of the Sleeping Beauty, since that's the last thing that Brian mentioned before I started writing this post.

In any case, thanks Iurius for sharing the vid. I'll watch the part where the main topic of this thread gets revealed tomorrow, after some rest.


Title: Re: Loom Postmortem
Post by: abisso on April 04, 2015, 12:24:10 PM
Oh my... I would have expected all but what I saw...

Even if I foresaw it in my previous post, as a silly joke:

Quote
Funny thing is I asked advice to Mr. Moriarty about how to attract a bit more fans without risking too much. Maybe this is his answer to that? Just kidding, of course.

I now feel very ashamed of how I reacted to the news some days ago. There has never been a denying of our project in Mr. Moriarty's speech. Quite the opposite. He dedicated more than a minute to show the public our game; and a minute in a 60 mins speech about LOOM is an enormous time. To be honest, he dedicated more time to that than to his announcement about the interest in doing a sequel. And he showed our sequel before doing so. I honestly can't imagine a more delicate and correct approach than the one he adopted.
I hate how press twists events by moving the spot-light to whatever it feels is more important, discarding the rest. A lesson I should have learned long ago, but I sometimes forget.

I'm glad the truth and correct balance of information has been re-established now. And I'm humbled by the honor that's been bestowed upon the team.

Thanks for all you did Mr. Moriarty. May your trailblazing creativity bring us many more gems like Loom, whether its sequels or completely different games.


Title: Re: Loom Postmortem
Post by: Iurius on April 06, 2015, 11:31:46 PM
Now the video is on YouTube as well - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYYALxq_N6oroI2slhK-0x92RaKS7USX3 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYYALxq_N6oroI2slhK-0x92RaKS7USX3)
Which is nice as you can enable subtitles there!


Title: Re: Loom Postmortem
Post by: Iurius on April 07, 2015, 01:28:43 AM
OK, thanks to the subtitles I was finally able to watch the Postmortem as well.
And it is great of course. Brian did show a lot of 'Forge'. And he even mentioned the Russian translation - probably the one I have made :) Unfortunately it seems that he does not know that no LucasFilm/LucasArts games were oficially translated into Russian, so that all we have are fan-made localizations. Still good though.


Title: Re: Loom Postmortem
Post by: abisso on April 07, 2015, 06:53:53 AM
And he even mentioned the Russian translation - probably the one I have made :) Unfortunately it seems that he does not know that no LucasFilm/LucasArts games were oficially translated into Russian, so that all we have are fan-made localizations. Still good though.

Oh, so you're the one behind the unofficial Russian translation? I didn't remember you telling me that.

As you now know, there's even a Hebrew translation, which was quite uncanny for those days, and I suppose still is. I feel privileged that Forge is going to feature it as well (and the Russian one, of course). Too bad I'm so full of (lowly paid) work last 2 months that I didn't manage to begin the translation phase yet.


Title: Re: Loom Postmortem
Post by: Iurius on April 07, 2015, 11:29:59 AM
Oh, so you're the one behind the unofficial Russian translation? I didn't remember you telling me that.


I told that in my first post (http://forgegame.com/forum/index.php?topic=376.msg1497#msg1497) here :) Well, the Russian localization was not only by me but also by a couple of other persons helping with programming and the arts.

Of course I knew about the Hebrew edition - it was the official one. And you can see it sometimes on eBay. There was an official Italian edition as well, right? It is strange that it is even more expensive now than the original US one.

Well, I can only wish you luck with your job and your time to make the translations started - and also other 'Forge' chapters, of course!


Title: Re: Loom Postmortem
Post by: abisso on April 07, 2015, 02:28:41 PM
Actually I don't think the Italian translation was official, and as a matter of fact I completely ignored it when I created Forge's one. I'm not saying it was bad, maybe it was actually awesome, but not many people here played using it so I preferred the freedom to localize in my style.


Title: Re: Loom Postmortem
Post by: selmiak on April 09, 2015, 06:23:41 AM
Thanks for sharing this talk. I added it to my Loom Links List (http://selmiak.bplaced.net/games/pc/index.php?lang=eng&game=Loom&page=Links#content) immediately. If you have any more things of interest that I could add to that list (like the russian localisation), please pm me and don't clutter up this thread.

The colorspace topic was very interesting, I recently pixeled a background with a more 90s feel and less colors through dithering. Annoying and fun at the same time. And the result is very much worth it.
The 4 color CGA Version of Loom with PC speaker was crappy though.

It's so great seeing Forge displayed in this talk, thanks professor Moriarty! :D