Haven't you always wondered? (LOOM style)

[Da_Duke2000]

During the course of LOOM, I'm sure there are a few unanswered questions we've all asked.

Why did Fleeces songs lose their effectiveness?
When did the Bishop Mandible first become influenced by Chaos?
Who is Bobbins father?
Why do those who look upon a Weaver become drawn into their eyes?

Well, to add some fun to the project, its been suggested to have an Extras menu that the player may be able to access as an extra game function outside of normal gameplay. Certain achievements will unlock unique extras. These could range from the typical concept-art, to unused sprites/animations.

To add more spice to the Extras, we're thinking of adding on a Cut Scenes theater. Where the player can play back cut scenes from Forge, as well as some never before released scenes depicting the history of some of our favorite characters.  

So, I'll open the floor and ask the board. Is there a special cut scene that you would like to see? The slaughter of the Shepherds? Why is the Chromax Conundrum was crafted from diamond?

Lets have some fun!

[abisso]

I like this easter egg thing! Always adding some more entertainment to a game. Well, there's a lot I'd like to see as a bonus cut-scene:

-The Dragon looting the Glassmakers
-The wizard trying to crush the Volcano and being eaten by the Dragon
-the weavers shaped like swans , as they enter for the first time in the Shore of Wonder (what did Cygna say? Did they have an argument?).

But what if some of these (and the ones in Duke's post) were playable instead? Just a few minutes of gameplay of course... but it could be more interesting.

[kaio]

I'd like to see the moment of Bobbins birth. It was mentioned in the audio drama of course, but nothing visual, though. That would be awesome.   8-)

[Da_Duke2000]

They being playable would be very fun. The player could experience being a Glassmaker, during the dragon attack. Or being the Mage who casts the spell. Just a few minutes here and there would really make the replay value quite high.

There is lots we could do! The First and Second Shadow. When the Weavers first left the main continent.

To those who have seen it, we have a brand newly drawn Weavers Distaff that is ready to use with any Weaver cut scenes.

I would also like to incorporate my map, again to those who have seen it. As a 'jigsaw puzzle' style achievement. Add sections to the map. Each section has a cut scene. Perhaps  .

[viruswitch]

Why did Fleeces songs lose their effectiveness?
When did the Bishop Mandible first become influenced by Chaos?
Who is Bobbins father?
Why do those who look upon a Weaver become drawn into their eyes?

Hello! I find it extremely interesting what would have happened at the shore of wonder, when the villagers and the elders arrived. I suppose that there would be a lot of cynicism in the air, between them and lady Cygna. On the other hand, wouldnt the shore be the adobe of all the weavers who have been dead? Did they believe in reincarnation or something? Or was the shore of wonder that vast of a place that lady cygna and the elders did not even meet?

I never really wondered who the father of Bobbin was. It was always clear to me that he was the (by)product of a spell. One could say the Loom was his father. It was something that had been predicted though, and it was as if the loom itself or destiny itself fullfilled themself.

When did Bishop Mandible start to become influenced by Chaos? Thats a good one. Hm....Maybe he started seeing visions of him in the crystal balls he had stolen or bought from the glassmakers? Maybe he had started to experiment with making tiny wholes in the fabric of the world, big enough to let Chaos communicate with him without getting loose?

One becomes drawn to the eyes of a Weaver, firstly because the robe covers everything else. Secondly, maybe a spell darkens the rest of their face giving unnatural glow to their eyes. Or they all posses a shining magnetism as a gift of their loomish inherited powers :-D.

That leaves us with one more. Fleece's songs could have lost their power, maybe because the Dragon's aura was negatively affecting the weave of magic around. Or the arrival of the second shadow (from the patterns of destiny) weakened their power. Or there had been a secret arrangement between the weaver who gave these songs to the sheperds, that was not fulfilled and thus they became useless, or they were meant to "expire" after some time.

There are so many things one can think of  .

[abisso]

Wow, a really helpful post Viruswitch! Some of your explanations are really good, and show your knowledge of the Loom world is pretty vast! Especially the ones about Flecees' songs I would have never thought by myself.

[Da_Duke2000]

I put a little thought into the Weavers eyes thing myself.

One of my favorite bits of loom fan-knowledge, was to write it that when the very first Weaver was Transcended, they had finally attained the ultimate transformation and were able to leave the Pattern. All the Weavers on the island gathered together to witness the weaving of the draft. When it was cast they were successful, but some form of cataclysm, consequence or curse (Undetermined), washed over the Weavers on the island, and effectively the Weavers traded a part of their souls for this power.

On the topic of Bobbins father, Bobbin does have one. He was born a stillborn, but he was still conceived nontheless.

 

[Raster]

Hmmm. I always believed that Fleeces powers were negated because Pattern was being slowly torn apart and her powers were more bound to the Pattern than anyone elses (due to most of the sheperds abilities being interwoven with the natural world anyway. Sleep/Awaken, Hide from Sight and Reveal Self, and of course Fleece's Healing.) I've always thought that the Pattern would be synonymous with the Natural Order. As Chaos slowly rose to power, the Natural Order slowly degraded as well and with the rending of the Pattern it in turn threw the Natural Order into chaos. I mean, especially with the dead walking and all. And with almost no Natural Order ALL of the Sheperd's abilities could be virtually ineffective.
I suppose FOLD could have followed her as she tried to return the Natural Order to things and sealing Chaos would be on of her main goals. Another question, Chaos is the incarnate of chaos... Are there other incarnates? Such as one of Nature? And how does one become an incarnate, or are they simply that way to begin with, perhaps another race?

[Da_Duke2000]

Exciting thoughts. Is Chaos a personification of an idea? Who's to say! But a question like that might turn into a debate on creationism.

As for Fleece, I agree that the indication was that the unraveling of the Pattern caused both the Weaver Elders drafts to malfunction, and weakened Fleeces (and the other Shepherds) Songs. But its also exciting to imagine how her powers might be returned, amplified or altered to work in a Chaos infested world, during the story of Fold.

[abisso]

Really interesting considerations, Raster.

Well, in my opinion Chaos is something we have to fight every minutes of our lives, voluntarily (building houses, ordering books on a shelf) or involuntarily (the biological processes that keep us alive). It's like "delaying the iinevitable". If any of you is familiar with Entropy, this can be described as "the natural tendency to chaos" in a really raw and incomplete enunciation.

So the Loom saga symbolises this struggle by giving Chaos an anthropomorphic shape. Guilds must be united and cooperate to be able to keep Chaos at bay, like we "humans" fro every continent should cooperate in order to keep balance in nature.

This is how I see it.

I'm not partial to a personification of Nature though.

[pwblaine]

Exciting thoughts. Is Chaos a personification of an idea? Who's to say! But a question like that might turn into a debate on creationism.

As for Fleece, I agree that the indication was that the unraveling of the Pattern caused both the Weaver Elders drafts to malfunction, and weakened Fleeces (and the other Shepherds) Songs. But its also exciting to imagine how her powers might be returned, amplified or altered to work in a Chaos infested world, during the story of Fold.

I think you're 100% right with to assume that whatever happened to the guild of Shepards to make their songs lose potency is going on all around the world of Loom.  It seems safe to assume that all persons and guilds of the world possess the ability to do magic, Weavers simply were the most in tune with nature.  Judging from the exposition in the audio drama, it seems like the magic in Loom is derived from being in tune with nature, and instead of trying to control it, submitting to it and respecting it.  The story of loom seems to parallel that of Merlin or the Mystic Yogis, as technology is introduced and man is seperated from nature, the magic simply seems to fade, save a few spells that still serve a purpose, however I'd say that, as technology is introduced that replaces even those spells (healing, stealth, sharpening, etc) the spells themselves will fade, unless they are kept active by use.  To me, it makes the most sense that the potential to do magic, has never truely faded, it simply has been forgotten how to be used.  It seems specialization and factioning of the peoples have played a part in segregating magic powers in the guilds.  It seems clear that for resolution to take place in the world of Loom, the magic needs to be revived in society, and the people must stop forgetting their roots, and fighting over their differences.  Again though, that seems to be a theme that will be addressed in The Fold.  The true question is when exactly did the powers begin to decline?  Was it when Bobbin was pulled from the loom?  Is the unravelling of the pattern mearly a consequence of Cygna's rashness?  Was it her decision to use the magic for something it was not intended for that caused the magic to start fading from the world?  Or has it been degrading as long as the Guilds have been factioning off?

Bobbin definately does not have a father, since he was concieved of the loom. A child of magic and nature.  His father is the loom, thus magic, thus his power potential should be greater than anyone else, which is probably why he learns spells so easily, it seems to me, that if one was a normal human, it would take a little more practice to hone the use of magic.

The current state of the Forge is that it is a floating cloud fueled by a fire as hot as hell.  We all know that in the end, it needs to come crashing down out of the sky, and land in the pasture of the shepards. I can see two ways that this could happen:
1.  The Forge is only flying because it is super light right now and made of clouds, it needs to be made back into stone and heavy so it will fall.
2.  The fire is propelling the Forge, so put out the fire and the forge will fall.

either of these would prolly work to get it out of the sky.

i agree with abisso that the personification of nature is unnecessary, if the potency of magic was to return in some fashion to the people, it would be tantamount to a personification of nature, and should be plenty enough to defeat Chaos.  I'd say that Chaos draws his from the dischord and hatred in the world.  I'd go so far as to say Chaos was not even always personified.  As the order of nature has been fading, the dischord has been getting stronger to the point where magic has all but faded, and chaos has become so prevalent that it has begun to take form and power. essentially chaos has form, because we give form to chaos with our fear and fighting.

The weaver's eyes are definately an interesting concept, why are they so deadly?  A central theme for the weavers seems to be transcensdence.  While all people of the world of Loom seem to possess some latent magic powers, it's clear that the weavers are  the most powerful, and the most in tune with nature.  I'd say the weavers were not always so drastically different from the rest of the population, however as their power grew, their physical forms became more and more frail, until they were almost entirely skeletal.  It also seems that the weavers are the only guild to truely see the full power potential of magic, perhaps because theyve seen so deeply into the Loom, their eyes are now gateways to the other world, hence when cob looks into his eyes, he recieves the full brunt of transcendental power and the physical stress of the the magic tears his soul from his body and pulls him to the other side.  Essentially, the weavers eyes cast a draft of transcendence, and Cob was not ready to transcend, hence it was very very ugly.

DUKE: One of my favorite bits of loom fan-knowledge, was to write it that when the very first Weaver was Transcended, they had finally attained the ultimate transformation and were able to leave the Pattern. All the Weavers on the island gathered together to witness the weaving of the draft. When it was cast they were successful, but some form of cataclysm, consequence or curse (Undetermined), washed over the Weavers on the island, and effectively the Weavers traded a part of their souls for this power.

I like that idea, perhaps it's a combination of the two, witnessing the first transcendence forever tainted their eyes...

DUKE:  When did Bishop Mandible start to become influenced by Chaos? Thats a good one. Hm....Maybe he started seeing visions of him in the crystal balls he had stolen or bought from the glassmakers? Maybe he had started to experiment with making tiny wholes in the fabric of the world, big enough to let Chaos communicate with him without getting loose?

It seems odd that Bishop Mandible knows so damn much without ever meeting a weaver or anything.  He must have seen this moment a long time ago.  The staff in his hand, ultimate power.  Perhaps Chaos has been playing with his mind?  Sending him visions of Mandible opening the rift in his dreams, or maybe he was on a trip to the glassmakers, and accidently saw it in a scrying sphere.  You can imagine the scene that would happen, Bishop Mandible steals away from the glassmakers for a second, the head glassmaker catches him entranced by a vision in the sphere, he warns the Bishop not to put too much stake in dreams, the sphere shows the future, but only a glimpse, not the consequences or full picture.

The cutscene theatre really seems cool, like REALLY cool, i just wish there was some way to work it into the actual story, like scrying spheres that actually let you take control of whoever you're watching, it almost seems like something that would be essential in the Fold, going back in time with the spheres to learn things of great importance, perhaps we can think of some things that the player would need to get from these past times. have them learn a draft, and see where some important item was left.  I think it would be a great way to expand on the scrying spheres of Loom, a bit like the Future Vision goggles of the new sam and max games.

[Da_Duke2000]

While I do not feel that all Guilds contain "Magic" per-se, I do agree that all Guilds possess an understanding of their trade which can include such revelations of Technology that can be considered Magic. Such as the Glassmakers and their Prism Carriages (the transporter pods, with the bells).

I feel that the decline of the powers of Magic, and the start of the Chaos shares a focal point in time with the day Bishop Mandible became influenced by Chaos and began his descent into megalomania. This moment in time should also coincide with the day that Bobbin was born and Cygna Transcended. Perhaps Cygna really didn't have the skill to weave on the Great Loom...

In regards to Bobbins father, there are two interpretations of the Audio Drama and Bobbins "Birth".
1. That Cygna gave birth to Bobbin, he was stillborn, and Cygna uses the Loom to weave new life into him.
2. That Cygna had a child, the child dies sometime after the birth, Cygna uses the Loom to 'create' a completely new child.

Either option deserves further discussion.

When talking about the Forge floating, I assert that there is a power source of some sort, and you better believe that power source will be removed .

A method of looking into the past could be for the Glassmakers to manufacture a new type of scrying sphere, something with a concave face/surface instead of convex. Almost as if it was inverted.

[ClericMaster]

Hmmm. I always thought that clouds were gathering around the FORGE so it could lift it up. That way, if rusty was inside, the atmosephere would seem much better. If the FORGE was made out of clouds, we would have Rusty walking through big puffy rooms.

[Da_Duke2000]

Basically I agree. I imagine the interior to be relatively similar, but with the storm-cloud magicness I'm sure the inside wil be restructured.

[cuchulainn]

I've always wondered which other guilds exist on the world, and what's the shape of their cities. I'm making an amateur tabletop rpg about loom, and sometimes i try to figure out which kind of places are still unvisited in the game. Maybe a clayworkers guild built around an oasis? people who can build clay golems and that use the oasis waters as magical armor and healing?
What about the assasins guild? do they have an assasin city? thats an overcool idea, i just wish i could picture it somehow.

What other guilds you wish you could see on the games? or a loom rpg, just in case?

I'd love to see the Organists guild, the Cartographers guild, and also the Mages guild (although i dont know how mages are supposed to be more "magical" than weavers)